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16.03.2006

Comments

watcher

i read every word in this blog entry. every word. that's right. that's why when i came across the last three words of this blog entry i just FORGOT ALL THOSE OTHER WORDS THAT CAME BEFORE!!1!!1!1 w00t!

(oh and i changed my screen name to avoid confusion with Stephen at guêpe)

ainge

thats a good call. guepe steve is the original steve in these here parts.

alex

"in short, this tension wasnt imported - it's a product of dutch society. maybe they should focus on race relations in their own country...."

right - this problem clearly does not exist anywhere outside the netherlands.

ainge

you are so dead, alex.

ainge

yeah, it exists everywhere, and it dont see how that changes the fact the onus should be on the netherlands to engage in domestic projects rather than simply blaming immigrants.

alex

"yeah, it exists everywhere, and it dont see how that changes the fact the onus should be on the netherlands to engage in domestic projects rather than simply blaming immigrants."

When you make a point, and I refute it, saying "but I don't see how this changes this other point I am making" is not a good response. Clearly, you were wrong to say that the problem is a product of dutch society, since the problem exists everywhere.

ainge

no, im not wrong to say that its a product of dutch society. clearly, something is going wrong in the netherlands when such a small country has a couple of high-profile murders motivated by racism (and criminal insanity) and this is what is motivating their decision to target immigrants as the root of the problem.

racism does exist everywhere. so far, its been up to global civil society to tackle it on a macro level. it doesnt just happen in the netherlands, but when the people committing the crimes are dutch-born and dutch-educated, it really doesnt make sense that theyre changing the way they deal with recent arrivals, while patting themselves on the back for being so tolerant.

alex

"when the people committing the crimes are dutch-born and dutch-educated, it really doesnt make sense that theyre changing the way they deal with recent arrivals..."

And Richard Reid was American-born; the main culprit in the London bombings was British born; one of the hostage takers in the Beslan school massacre was born in Georgia with no connection to the conflict.

If you want to remain wilfully blind to the pattern, feel free to go ahead and blame it on domestic problems in each of those area.

ainge

so if this kind of extremism is happening among people born in the west, then i dont see how this counters my assertion that westerners should be focussing on their own citizenry to solve problems of racism.

alex

"then i dont see how this counters my assertion that westerners should be focussing on their own citizenry to solve problems of racism."

except you made no such assertion; you said it was "a product of dutch society." dutch society is not western society.

anyway, browing statistics on terrorist incidents reveals that most of them occur outside the west; and looking at wikipedia's list of terrorist incidents reveals that a clear majority of them is tied to islamic extremism. That should dispell the notion that this extremism has any origin in western society.

alex

seriously, it takes major disconnect with reality to argue that a significant contributing factor to islamic extremism is domestic behavior of westerners. all over the world there are assassinations and terrorist acts by islamic fundamentalists; but somehow, when these fundamentalists live in the west, it must be that racism is at fault!

Junior

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